tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702735525623771250.post2625892628813674805..comments2023-02-13T00:41:34.252-08:00Comments on The Great Rescue: Mark Driscoll's Vulgarity Draws Media Attention: My ThoughtsMicah Andrew Hastyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10164507579755002932noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702735525623771250.post-63504741924560340222009-02-16T17:54:00.000-08:002009-02-16T17:54:00.000-08:00Hey guys! Here is an EXCELLENT piece on the subje...Hey guys! Here is an EXCELLENT piece on the subject by Ed Stetzer.<BR/><BR/>http://blogs.lifeway.com/blog/edstetzer/2009/02/friday-is-for-friends-16.html#moreAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702735525623771250.post-67223776766126579812009-02-13T11:09:00.000-08:002009-02-13T11:09:00.000-08:00Matt,Thanks so much for your response. I think th...Matt,<BR/><BR/>Thanks so much for your response. I think that we agree a lot here in essence, and that some of this is semantics and personality, but I would like to clarify and possibly draw some distinctions.<BR/><BR/>In response to my comment on Driscoll's abrasive style being old hat, you said:<BR/><BR/>"I do not see that at all! For far too long we have castrated Jesus and made Him into some white faced, shining head guru, with a "dinner plate" behind His head, that taught good things, kissed babies, and did some magic tricks to get a following, and if you "believe" in Him then He'll take you to Heaven, so now go sit in a pew and do your good deeds for the world."<BR/><BR/>I TOTALLY agree with this. But the castration of the message (or of the character of Jesus)in my mind has been more when we have focused our energies on issues so far removed from anything Jesus really spent much time talking about.<BR/><BR/>Surely Jesus did teach a radical self-sacrificing and passionate love! We have made the message impotent through our focus on a Gospel that cares little for the individual holistically and instead has told folks that they are to simply "believe" in Him then He'll take you to Heaven, so now go sit in a pew"<BR/><BR/>For my part I have heard very little about the last part of your statement - "and do your good deeds for the world."<BR/><BR/>Growing up there were two sermons repeated three times a week using different passages and a new set of points that all started with the same letter: (1)how to be saved from Hell and (2) the urgency of making sure you get as many other people saved from Hell as possible. We were never told the next step; never told how we are to then live OUT that saving message (other than just waiting "a few more days".)<BR/><BR/>Now, modern evangelicals have done a much better job than my fundamentalist upbringing of expanding that message into the here and now with emphasis on pro-life issues, building strong families, leadership seminars and support groups for moms.....but it still amazes me how much of the full message of Jesus is simply ignored.<BR/><BR/>In my experience, statements like, <BR/><BR/>"It's time for us to be proclaiming that Jesus is more than a social worker with social issues to meet!"<BR/><BR/>and,<BR/><BR/>"we must be faithful to the Word of God and stop watering down the message of the Gospel."<BR/><BR/>is sort of a straw man argument that insinuates that a good majority of pastors are doing just that. But in reality, at least here in the US - a quick look at the percentage of churches that identify as evangelical or a list of the top selling religious books of the past 20 years would show that the "traditional" view of Jesus as merely a social worker is NOT the predominate viewpoint held my most Christians.<BR/><BR/>The social-gospel Jesus of the liberals is by far a minority opinion.<BR/><BR/>Now - the idea that I REALLY take issue with is this:<BR/><BR/>"One cannot have duty without doctrine!<BR/><BR/>Your doctrine is to drive your duty!"<BR/><BR/>Once again, who is saying this that this isn't true??? So the polar opposite of Mark Driscoll's abrasive style is someone who doesn't care about doctrine??? While I'm sure there are some Unitarians out there who don't care what their congregants hold as "true" - I don't know of a single person in my circle of progressive (or even emergent) friends who would disagree with you that it is our doctrine drives our actions!<BR/><BR/>Even someone like Jim Wallis (the flagship of social Gospel Christians) would say that it IS in fact doctrine, it IS the words of the prophets (along with the thousands of oft-ignored passages of Scripture), it IS the teachings of Jesus that drive him OUT of the pews and into the streets.<BR/><BR/>OF course we believe that the Gospel is not "soft and easy"!!! WHAT in the world is easy about bathing the stinking feet of the homeless? What is easy about giving up our possessions and attempting to live out the example of Jesus (in a culture that screams out for us to have more)? What is soft about groups like Christian Peace Witness who travel to Israel, Baghdad, and Afghanistan and place themselves in the path of bullets and rocket fire? What is easy about preaching unconditional love and forgiveness toward people who have hurt you deeply???<BR/><BR/>I'm missing the point.<BR/><BR/>The "tell it like it is", in your face style really is the old game of loud and ineffective street preachers and talk show hosts. I believe that we need to save that kind of attitude for Dr. Phil, Judge Judy, and the chef on Hell's Kitchen. Being blatantly offensive and using the "truth" as a club is a way of communicating the message of the Gospel that needs to die.Scott Childresshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17988647988866664386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702735525623771250.post-88005141372757243642009-02-12T11:00:00.000-08:002009-02-12T11:00:00.000-08:00I believe Jesus was a "man's man." However, being...I believe Jesus was a "man's man." However, being a man's man though does not equate a lack of self control, meekness, or gentle love.<BR/><BR/>If not is the cross not in vain, to some degree? It did not end war or suffering. Yet, that would be nice if it had. The cross is definitely not gentle love. Instead, the cross says, in essence, "I'll love you all the way to hell and back!" That is a lot of love!<BR/>I take some issues w/ his post as well<BR/><BR/>I see the points. And I see the points of the above post. But I could not disagree more w/ him in regard to the following statement he made: "All that to say, that Driscoll's manly man, kill-em-all-and-let-God-sort-em-out style is old hat and it seems to me that the people who are really attracted to it are those who already call themselves Christians and have a sense of cultural arrogance."<BR/><BR/><BR/>I do not see that at all! For far too long we have castrated Jesus and made Him into some white faced, shining head guru, with a "dinner plate" behind His head, that taught good things, kissed babies, and did some magic tricks to get a following, and if you "believe" in Him then He'll take you to Heaven, so now go sit in a pew and do your good deeds for the world.<BR/><BR/>But Jesus is more than that!<BR/><BR/>It's time for us to be proclaiming that Jesus is more than a social worker with social issues to meet! Those are important.<BR/><BR/>But He is the sovereign creator, owner, sustainer, and Savior of the world.<BR/><BR/>This bit of wanting duty but no doctrine knows nothing of New Testament faith. Nor anything of Jesus for that matter.<BR/><BR/>One cannot have duty without doctrine!<BR/><BR/>Your doctrine is to drive your duty!<BR/><BR/>We are to stand on the Word of God. We are to meet people where they are. But we must be faithful to the Word of God and stop watering down the message of the Gospel. The Gospel is not soft or easy. But it is life changing.<BR/><BR/>That is the issue at hand here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6702735525623771250.post-34912658693553826482009-02-12T08:23:00.000-08:002009-02-12T08:23:00.000-08:00micah - my brother from another mother - how goes ...micah - my brother from another mother - how goes it?<BR/><BR/>i have some pretty strong opinions on marky mark. as far as the main thrust of the article, i agree with him in speaking bluntly about issues our culture surely isnt shying away from. i think we may very well need to use "gutter language" to confront the issues of the gutter.<BR/><BR/>i also think that some prim and proper church ladies would be shocked if they were somehow able to take the Scriptures out of their leather covers, red ribbons and gold edging and read it in the everyday street slang much of it was written in.<BR/><BR/>so in that respect, Dricoll is very much in the Biblical tradition.<BR/><BR/>now - to be honest - i cant stand Mark Driscoll. His style is abrasive and crude and he overuses hyperbole to make outrageous points designed to portray his central message: God isn't a sissy, you souldn't be either, and if you don't clean up your act - God will kick your ass.<BR/><BR/>In fact, I think if Driscoll didn't have the media to content with, he would probably have a sermon titled something like that.<BR/><BR/>I realize that this is a popular style (think closer to home: Ergun) but how tiring it must be to get up on stage and grrrr and growl and show off your muscles and talk about how Jesus is a prize fighter only to have to apologize or backtrack when you get called to task for stupid comments.<BR/><BR/>AND while this stands in the great fundamentalist tradition (which is really all Driscoll is - a fundie with a dirty mouth) I think the time for it is over.<BR/><BR/>I remeber when Dr. Falwell (God rest his soul) was on tv one Sunday and he humored his congregation by exclaiming that he shot a couple extra sprays of hairspray in the air every morning just to anger the envirnomentalists. And while his congregation laughed, I'm pretty certain that there were some earth lovin' folks who really needed Jesus, but decided that this Christianity thing surely couldn't be for them.<BR/><BR/>All that to say, that Driscoll's manly man, kill-em-all-and-let-God-sort-em-out style is old hat and it seems to me that the people who are really attracted to it are those who already call themselves Christians and have a sense of cultural arrogance.<BR/><BR/>Reminds me of the feelings behind Hank Jr.s old line: We say Grace, and we say Amen, and if you ain't into that we don't give a damn.<BR/><BR/>I can see that as Driscoll's next sermon title.<BR/><BR/>Scott CScott Childresshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17988647988866664386noreply@blogger.com